thanks very much, JT I do almost all B&W in lightroom, only sometimes in Nik Silver Efex. On this one I used LR 3 and reduced the green and yellow and increased the darks and blacks. The high contrast is also from the dark vocalic stone. A few sleeves at the top I removed with the spot removal in LR. You may find the original and a screen shot from LR in the German forum www.dslr-forum.de/showpost.php?p=7604940&postcount=343]here at the bottom of the post regards dierk